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[00:00:00] Tom Barry: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Westside Barbell podcast. We're here today with John Quint and as ever Louie Simmons is here with us today. His topic, since we haven't covered, I don't believe it was since, uh, 2015 or 16 is the injury rate in the NFL. And to get things started, I got a few stats, uh, in 2019. Within the first week and NFL teams lost over half a billion dollars.[00:00:28] For starters, not playing, that's not including bonuses and everything else with sponsors, but since 2020 is often even worser start. I thought it'd be worthwhile getting, uh, John and Lou together and discussing this more to see what actually is going on since technically this is the first year that they should have had their own private training.
[00:00:48] And that's always been a debate, whether private training was as good as. The pro training. And it seems right now is that no training is working out good for him. So I'll hand it over to you, Lou, to see what your [00:01:00] thoughts are on this.
[00:01:01] Louie Simmons: [00:01:01] Well, I think one of the problems in the NFL as many pro sports district coaches is actually an ex ball player.
[00:01:07] He's not an x-ray lifter or power lifter or anything else. So they don't actually know how to get stronger to know what makes people strong. Yeah. We concentrate here 83. It was the strongest gym in the world. We've had we've owned the world record since 1986. Never had we not had a world record. And, um, I move, we have the greatest bench pound for pound in the world, the greatest squat pound for pound, the greatest total pound for pound I, and, um, but we've never had these types of injuries.
[00:01:32] And the reason is because only 20%, it was with a barbell, even though we're absolute powerlifters to 80%, it's small exercise for single joint activity. That way we don't have any muscle imbalances, why it's, why we don't get hurt. I've watched teams have, um, You know, does every year they got the same injury growing injury.
[00:01:51] Uh, there are superstars growing and you can't play lose national championship next year. What happens there top dropped draft pick NFL green injury, same thing. [00:02:00] They never, they just don't learn. And all these things can be avoided very simply in my opinion, uh, if they only knew, but a lot of people will tell you, well, football is played in here, Lou.
[00:02:09] I said it was not played in there because once you get the legs apart, it's like a Virgin. It only hurts for a little bit for the first time, but they pull the gray. Now they're not playing once they get the legs apart, the flexibility is great, but strength is greater because the greatest method flexibility is built was with a barbell exercises.
[00:02:26] I can, a few of them like ultra wide Sumo dead lift. So when the best thing anyone can do it, save on the back, builds up the hamstrings, glutes, and hips. And that's what you move. Ultra wide box squats, very, very low box belt squats, um, in a belt squat machine, like bar ATP or Ukraine delis, where you hold onto a kettlebell, go down between two boxes, see your boat almost touches the boxes.
[00:02:50] That's going to build the straight flexibility in the groin and the hip area. And then you'll eliminate a lot of these injuries. Johnny likes to say something.
[00:02:59] John Quint: [00:02:59] Yeah. I [00:03:00] mean, I think you bring up a lot of valid points. I think the injury issue is definitely multi-variant, it's very complex. I think one of the advantages that is here at Westside barbell is, uh, there's a standard system in place of training that almost operates as a feedback loop.
[00:03:19] Right? So like the training and of itself tells you what's needed. I tried and I said,
[00:03:25] Louie Simmons: [00:03:25] God. Well, we're just huge on GPP. I am ball's fourth face. He's a higher up. You go. It's more S it's all sports related. It's not more GPP anymore. A guy asked me one time. He says, how tall is the pyramid? Lee? I said, as tall as his base, you don't have a wide base.
[00:03:39] I've taught pyramid. He ballplayers, you got a small base. That's why he had heard not only that they play one position, so repeatedly do the very same things. And that's one of the reasons it's called the law of accommodation in many sports. And that's where they get the injuries. And, uh, it was basically like you, I want you to talk about the hamstring ACL, and I'm going to tell you what a book code parents forge talks about.
[00:04:00] [00:03:59] John Quint: [00:03:59] Yeah, yeah, yeah. But getting back to what I was saying originally, like is like, you guys have a method of training, right? So like, if you think about, if you put yourself into the position of a pro athlete, right. They're not in a good position because at any time that staff could get fired. Right. And it's, it's quite interesting, like.
[00:04:17] Uh, if you look at powerlifting or successful powerlifting, you'll see kind of this base Westside method being run. When you look into the NFL and you're sure work with these athletes, it's quite hard because you've got 32 teams in 32 teams have 32 minutes. Right, right. And so it's like, those systems are always changing, but the system doesn't, it doesn't allow for feedback on what the individual needs to train.
[00:04:41] Whereas here at West side, it's a system in the system tells you what's needed and then you just train what is actually needed, not what you want to train it. And I think that, I think that's a huge issue that's going on right now is, I mean, even if you think about it from a player's perspective, [00:05:00] uh, I feel, uh, I have sympathy for them because you could be, you could have your initial four years at a certain organization get traded and have a completely different training program.
[00:05:09] Even though you're doing the same exact position. It doesn't, to me, to me, it's very hard for me to understand that. Whereas, you know, at West side, because the goal is very specific, the system is set up very specific to achieve those results. And then on top of it, if you know, somebody misses a lift, you almost know why because, and so the, the, the rate of learning is much quicker.
[00:05:31] Does that make certain that's the reason why you see continual progress with lack of injuries because your training needs and your training, the needs in a very timely manner.
[00:05:40] Louie Simmons: [00:05:40] Yeah. And in the NFL, you don't see it because if you look at Lyman, flyman runs such a time for seven 40 is going to make a lot of money.
[00:05:48] That was 40 years ago today 47 40 makes they might not even make big money. They haven't improved. How come these ballplayers don't improve on her times after all these years, because you got better services, better shoes. So [00:06:00] it shouldn't be better training to go with it. You're absolutely right.
[00:06:04] John Quint: [00:06:04] Yeah. But what's interesting too, is the fact that, uh, I think the, the big discrepancy is the injury rates are through the roof and everyone is doing, like, you can tell that, uh, There's a hard time and people trying to figure out what training is needed, because everybody's doing something different, right?
[00:06:23] Like, like at the end of the day, like if you look at West side, people are running max effort, people are running, they're actually doing these programs. Then when you get into that NFL and you're trying to deconstruct what it is they're doing. Every team is doing something different every, and each college is also doing something different, which to me makes it very hard.
[00:06:43] To really understand what it is they are doing.
[00:06:46] Louie Simmons: [00:06:46] Yeah. Well, you know, on track, he talked to track coach and I have all these injuries and I said, why you got these injuries, injuries. I said, why'd you overuse them? I know, you know, they know what it is, but they can't combat it. They know the problem can't solve it [00:07:00] yourselves.
[00:07:00] Uh, you know, a top a hundred puts out a thousand pounds of step per step. So, if you look at a guy, uh, boats, except he run it 41 meters, 41 steps, 100 meters, David, you gotta run 43 to 45. So let's say it's average is 43,000 pounds on one foot in 10 seconds or less. Now, you know, if you take over a powder, which is a work up to a thousand pounds, squat on two feet is going to take a half hour and workload is much, much less than what that.
[00:07:26] Know, we're not, there's nowhere to have 43,000 pounds of work. So that's why they kill us the same thing in the NFL. You know, they talk about all these AC engines. So it's, I know you're, you're in your medical fields, you get into, you do not have to have a hamstring, and if you've got AC injury, even if you have stolen hamstrings, you can play.
[00:07:43] I try my AC years ago. Uh, remember dr. Knuckles. He said, Oh, you'll be okay. I took about three, four weeks. Got it back together. Never got it. Fixed or delivered at seven 15 when I was 57 years old with it. I mean, it's still there. I got the other knee replaced, but not that one. All I did was keep my [00:08:00] hamstrings down and given, you know, um, Russian, they girls glute ham raise in Virgin girl, reverse hyper and so forth training what I needed and a lot of bankers for soft tissue.
[00:08:09] We try to do a hundred to 200 every day. For soft tissue work where you don't have these soft tissue injuries.
[00:08:16] John Quint: [00:08:16] Yeah, exactly. But it goes back to the training here, right. Is meeting the need in a timely manner. Right. Like, but that's because it's an organized method of training. Right. And I think that, I think it can't be understated that the issue is.
[00:08:35] Right now, if you have 32 teams in the NFL and you asked all the strength, coaches, they're all going to give you somewhat of a different
[00:08:44] Louie Simmons: [00:08:44] philosophy,
[00:08:44] John Quint: [00:08:44] right? When, realistically at the end of the day, like, I don't think that the training is complex, but I think it's also simple because it's meeting the need.
[00:08:54] And you know what I mean? Like the athletes telling you what they need, like the injuries are clearly a [00:09:00] feedback mechanism. If you use them in that manner, you can't just brush them under the rug. Like they don't exist at some point. That you have to start to figure out how to start to train the, how to start to build capacity up so that you have more of a buffer zone.
[00:09:14] So the injuries are mitigated or they don't occur.
[00:09:17] Louie Simmons: [00:09:17] No, you'd be, if you're a beginner, you look at exercises and, and you know, you think you got all the answers, then you only find out you don't have all the answers. So that simple exercise becomes a complicated exercise then after studying it for years and you can find out it's back to simple again, but they never go through those phases.
[00:09:33] Yeah. What simple in the beginning, because you don't know anything actually will become complicated, but at the end when you learn, it becomes simple. Again, just like a martial art master.
[00:09:42] John Quint: [00:09:42] Yeah, exactly.
[00:09:43] Louie Simmons: [00:09:43] You had to do a certain kick or a punch after repeatedly doing it thousands and thousands. And that's exactly what that's, why we don't have injuries.
[00:09:50] Uh, 30 people over 800 Nadella, for instance, for nine. I mean, I dunno, 15 women, there were five in the deadlift, the lightest ones at one 30, two to five 35 dead [00:10:00] lift. Uh, why don't we have any hamstring injuries or anything? You know, I mean, you know, the only difference between us and them, they're a foot taller than us.
[00:10:06] That's straight up. I told a guy one time, just the truth. I said, what for TV? I'd be more famous. Anybody in the NFL? I would. Yeah,
[00:10:15] John Quint: [00:10:15] but think about this too, from the perspective like you're talking about, right. So. You have all these, you have all these, all these records. Right. But the thing is when the lifter comes into the gym, they know what they're doing, they know what they need to do.
[00:10:27] And it's also safe. Right. They know, right. A lot of these guys, when you really talk to them, because, you know, I work with, I work with a lot of athletes. Right. And when you start to try to acquire information on like, What is their training, like, et cetera, right. They don't really know one weight room.
[00:10:44] Isn't a place that they can go into and find order it's more chaos, right? Like. Like when you go in there and you ask some, someone like, okay, we'll like, okay, we're going to try to push, let's say we want to increase your rate of force development. They would have no idea what weight [00:11:00] to pick for that exercise.
[00:11:03] Right. Whereas here they would immediately know which that in and of itself mitigates injury, but it also increases performance. So do you understand what
[00:11:11] Louie Simmons: [00:11:11] I'm saying? A hundred percent. You have to know what you're trying to build. If you're trying to build it as opposed to strength, you know, you had to do maximum strength, but then you're going to use 30, 40%, not 75 and 85%.
[00:11:21] Exactly. You have to know if you don't. Yeah, but
[00:11:25] John Quint: [00:11:25] think about it. They don't even know what their one rep is because they're never like, so like when they're training, that's what I, that's what I'm saying. Like, when you really ask these guys, Hey, what are you doing? Like, how are you training? Like they leave it up to other people to do it.
[00:11:39] Then I think. Uh, maybe this is something that is important, even for lifters, probably some of the best lifters, take it on themselves to be more self-reliant than instead of, uh, instead of waiting on a coach to tell them exactly what
[00:11:54] Louie Simmons: [00:11:54] exactly, because they should know what to do. And you know, another thing I've looked at programs, it's a program is what you do next [00:12:00] month.
[00:12:00] This, well, how about this? Program never changes the human body changes. And, uh, but they're still in the same program. Has Y visited, they make no progress again, the law of accommodation.
[00:12:13] John Quint: [00:12:13] Yeah. And the other thing too to take into consideration is not only do they accommodate from the training. But they also accommodate from the game.
[00:12:22] Louie Simmons: [00:12:22] That's right.
[00:12:24] John Quint: [00:12:24] You hear what I'm saying?
[00:12:25] Louie Simmons: [00:12:25] You know, in sport it's called the speed. Bayer. If you grew up playing football or any other basketball franchise or tennis, if you that's all you do, you will be, you will get to a point. You can't run any faster neurologically it's called the speed barrier. You'll have to quit running and do an exercise guy jumping and lifting weights and so forth.
[00:12:43] And then you increase your running times
[00:12:45] John Quint: [00:12:45] a different stimulus.
[00:12:46] Louie Simmons: [00:12:46] That's called the conjugate system.
[00:12:47] John Quint: [00:12:47] Yeah. A hundred percent.
[00:12:48] Louie Simmons: [00:12:48] Yeah. People don't, people they don't understand. And the conjugate system is also to bring up weaknesses in areas. By bringing up a weakness, you could correct technique. A lot of people don't [00:13:00] understand that, you know, they, they don't want, they can't run because they don't have any glutes.
[00:13:03] Now, the hamstring, it ties into the hip hop here, does seven times work. It does work ties into the knee. So now, if you don't know that you're going to spend all your time doing leg curls and you will go nowhere on a football field, but getting a leg injury, like a hamstring injury. But if you do reverse hybrids and glute hams and all that build up and wide squats, it builds up those muscles.
[00:13:21] They tie into the ground and you'll never get hurt. Hmm.
[00:13:24] Tom Barry: [00:13:24] You brought up a very good point, about a few minutes back about overuse injuries. Well, technically this year they never ran because of previous years, but like, just like in 2011 with the lockout, was it that the injury, it was up 25%, 44% was on the hamstring and the acute.
[00:13:45] But do you think they're missing out on that factor? They don't understand that yet. You're not running, but you're losing that force. And you could put that force in by doing plyometrics or jumps. And that the training itself is going backwards because we're not accounting for the lack of running that they did.
[00:13:59] They [00:14:00] used to
[00:14:00] Louie Simmons: [00:14:00] overtrain them. The simple ways to measure power is to jump. As you jumped, as we jump up and touch, or you're jumping into a box and like Tom talks about plyometrics, you have to note the problem with plyometrics metrics is too many coaches do plant mix. You have no clue what they're doing.
[00:14:15] You know, for most people, even in the NFL, you barely want to go over a 20 inch box. Because you jump off a 20 inch box land and jumping into another box or up for a touch test. Um, you're if you're low, you're a optimization. You face those down you're you're on the ground too long and you lose you're exposed to power.
[00:14:31] It actually leads to building maximum string. So what are you trying to build? We want to build maximum strength, raised the box up to a meter 30, 36 inch. If you want to build a pair, you got to keep down about 20 inches and there's not many people know this. They don't have many to do. You know, I I've always recommended most people.
[00:14:49] I don't have a big, long jumper here this year with silver medalists, I had to go 120 jumps a week, 43 times a week. Everyone else top. 40 twice a week and CA children or [00:15:00] beginners 24, twice a week. That's, what's recommended by and I've always followed the recommendation by the people that invented this stuff.
[00:15:07] And I didn't go out and think I'm going to outsmart them. Cause I'm not, why would I, you know, you had it for years and years, so why would I just do what they do?
[00:15:16] John Quint: [00:15:16] Yeah. But that's interesting because like you did that, but you put it a loading parameter or constraint on them. So then you got to go for it.
[00:15:25] Louie Simmons: [00:15:25] Oh, optimal.
[00:15:26] John Quint: [00:15:26] Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
[00:15:28] Louie Simmons: [00:15:28] Optimally.
[00:15:29] John Quint: [00:15:29] Right. But, but, but, but once again, it goes back to like, there's a base system that's being run that just doesn't exist. So like, that's, it's almost like the same thing, you know, unfortunately I grew up a Browns fan, so, so it's like each year. They, they have a new offensive coordinator and defensive coordinator.
[00:15:47] Right. And because of that, you see no consistency in that regard. Well, you do see consistency, you see consistent poor performance in regards to the Browns play like over time. Right? It's the same thing in [00:16:00] regards to performance. Like if you replace authentic coordinator within a performance staff and that staff continuously gets turned over, Right then it's like, I mean, it's literally crazy
[00:16:12] Louie Simmons: [00:16:12] and new bosses and all of a sudden he wants us to do the same job.
[00:16:15] We'd be doing totally different. Now we're in helter-skelter and then six months later, he leaves for a better job and we're stuck. Nobody's going to want to change again. Yeah. We'll never match our job.
[00:16:25] John Quint: [00:16:25] Yeah. And it's crazy too, like with the staff money manipulation, that can also happen. Right. So one of the guys that I worked for was telling me that the organization, right.
[00:16:35] They brought in a new staff, but when they brought in a new staff, they got rid of all the injured players and then brought younger players in. Well then obviously that skews the statistics. Cause it looks like they did a great job with injury rates. Right. But all the subjects have been changed over.
[00:16:48] Yeah. Right. So I mean like the NFL, like there's going to be injuries that happen in NFL obviously, but the rate at which they're increasing is quite alarming. Right. Right. And, and [00:17:00] when you look
[00:17:00] Louie Simmons: [00:17:00] at like they're useless injuries
[00:17:02] John Quint: [00:17:02] yeah. When you look at the injuries you look like, okay, well, can these be mitigated?
[00:17:07] And you go, yeah, they can be mitigated, but if they're not,
[00:17:10] Tom Barry: [00:17:10] well, just look at the simple fact of change, the dynamic of the pitch. They're complaining that the surfaces so different this year, that's causing more ankle injuries and knee injuries, but then you got to ask yourself, is it because they don't have the ability to adapt because technically you should be able to adapt to them.
[00:17:27] Louie Simmons: [00:17:27] You mean the pitch on the field? Yeah. Well he knows the Selby, so he used concave areas to train your ankles and all this, but you don't see it here. I I've, I've been like Arizona tibia machine. Doesn't go. We have, you know, we have space spaceflight stuff. I just talked to, uh, Ashley and Joe, uh, Kovacs and Joe's they took all of our stuff out.
[00:17:49] High state plows, swing and verse curl, reverse hyper. Um, and an ATP, right. And they love the MD 19. She said, but they don't [00:18:00] have it. But all of a sudden, now he's in desperate need for this. So he knows he's, job's going to start coming down here training so he can get back on these equipment. Why does he need is because does that go to football and track or throw her, they get these injuries in high-speed motions.
[00:18:15] They oversee they're so fast. They tear, but you don't tear. If you're strong, you just don't care.
[00:18:21] Tom Barry: [00:18:21] Well, and plus you're getting them strong in all different areas, not just a groove that they're used to that's right. And that's what everyone keeps doing. Like that's a, um, you brought up an optimal and this system that we use is an optimal organization of training, but every week it gives you feedback.
[00:18:38] So you can train, okay, your week here, you don't have to wait three or six months to change
[00:18:42] Louie Simmons: [00:18:42] it,
[00:18:44] Tom Barry: [00:18:44] but you have the tools to fix it. You just don't go, Oh, that's a weakness. I leave a goal, which a lot of coaches do. You were like, okay, let's fix this weakness now.
[00:18:51] John Quint: [00:18:51] Yeah, but like what you're saying is the training needs to be adaptable.
[00:18:55] And the reason is the training. If the training isn't adaptable, then athlete performing the training, [00:19:00] isn't going to be adaptable to, to feed back into your point, which is the reason why, like, you know, there is an issue with. Players being able to rapidly adapt to the demands. Initially for the beginning of the season,
[00:19:11] Louie Simmons: [00:19:11] you came here about nine years ago.
[00:19:12] Right? And I told you now, when you go down there and watch the guys don't freak out after these quad, cause they're going to be going everywhere you go, what the hell are they doing? But what would they actually do? The large barbell exercise. We'd go straight to exercise that we need. They can, it could be reverse Hybris.
[00:19:25] They guy might be doing shrugs, you know, but we go to where the weaknesses are. Everything's like, you know, it's like a, uh, It's called a web and training puzzles, like a big piece of pie. So if you don't have any hamstrings, the biggest piece of my pie is going to be work your hamstrings. You know, if you're very strong in some areas, it's going to be the last thing I do.
[00:19:43] There'll be a small amount that way I bounce everything and we don't have any injuries. They didn't have any injuries, either. No run right out here, Paul hamstring and two weeks now, what. You know, sports is really bad and like [00:20:00] a Bob sledding, terrible. I said three people let it be. Bob said all three guys, hamstring poles.
[00:20:06] Cause they don't do anything. They think a little peek lifting, take that word Olympic off those clean and jerk and snatch. And it wouldn't be some freaking popular cause they're not going to the Olympics. You know what I mean? They're not going to your Olympic. So get those two names off there. Just two exercises.
[00:20:21] They do not make you explosive, supposed to train 30 to 40% weight lifting is a speech string sport, and people don't even know it. So you'll know they're doing something. They don't know what they're doing.
[00:20:31] Tom Barry: [00:20:31] For those athletes that came here and they left in two weeks, they got injured. What was the big difference?
[00:20:36] Like what happened from what they're doing here to what? They went into the gut, them injured.
[00:20:40] Louie Simmons: [00:20:40] Okay. I'm not going to say what school or anything, but I had normally have some girls in here and there about 10th tap off after four years at school, about two months later. They started contract. Well, there is always a hamstring.
[00:20:50] So I told the coach at this one girl in particular, on the inverse curl, she was way off with everyone else. I said, she's got to bring the hands up. I mean, you just don't. Even when she was [00:21:00] here, they still had to come way up, but she pulled out here two weeks later, running a longer distance race, which I don't know why you would do pulled a hamstring.
[00:21:08] Now she's out of track. Makes no sense. No an injury is like a bucket. You got a hole in that bucket and it's going to leak forever. Anyone, any doctor tells you you'll be better after surgery is out of their freaking mind, they must be smoking dope because you're not going to be better. I mean, he's a tough ass guys.
[00:21:27] That's one problem with them. They play hurt. I know they'll play cause they know if they don't know what the NFL stands for. Not for home. If the NFL, if the system was a better system, the average length of time, a ballplayer plays is less than two years. You see these printer all starts to play eight, 10, 12 years, but when may number gone, it will last two years.
[00:21:50] Tom Barry: [00:21:50] even the ones that stay in look the quality of life and they leave,
[00:21:52] Louie Simmons: [00:21:52] right?
[00:21:53] Tom Barry: [00:21:53] Like very few come out unscathed.
[00:21:56] Louie Simmons: [00:21:56] I'm a good example though. You, if you stay on something long enough, you go get the [00:22:00] hell kicked out of you, but it's, you know, but I trained wrong for 12 years. Had I been brought up in the system that we use today, know the West side system, which basically the Soviet system adapt to with my exercises, who knows what I would have done.
[00:22:14] I mean, you know, I've done it to four 75 when I was 14, 140 pounds. Cause I was a labor block Tinder, you know? And so what if I brought up in this system and so on, you know, looking at Dave Hoff, No greatest lifter in the world, 15 years. That's another thing to talk about. A lot of training. Well, jug Volcker pull me in at 25 years of top 10, you know, world record.
[00:22:35] He finally, the records got broken, you know, when he retired at 25 years, he still holds world records. These guys last forever. And this is I, I last, I stopped in the welfare 34 years. By the NFL. Raymond went to get a bigger room, Tom, and he put my money in. You could get all the money here if I played three or four years, and I bet you're going to do it.
[00:22:54] It wouldn't fit my money, but unfortunately I don't, I'm too short, too dumb, [00:23:00] but I mean, the key is, is just, you got to have better training. They got all of these tremendous, um, well, I tell you, well, you'll never tell him you're never going to change him. I I've got a good friend, played nine years of offensive lineman.
[00:23:13] And I watched him actually I'll tell the team cause this a long time ago, is that the Browns that he walked up to the offensive line coach. Cause at that time he was assistant strength coach. And I mean, he's a top street coach, you know, but he walked up to and said, Hey, you know, you ever think about doing this?
[00:23:26] And the guy looked down and said, there's only one officer line coach on this team and walked off. No advice. Wouldn't take any vice guy, nine freaking years. Guy's a monster. If he would've went up and say hello, and we'll tell you how to cook a banana, go out, or you do it. You know, no, not this guy. He wouldn't even listen about football.
[00:23:44] They're stuck. They get stuck in their ways. You know, you can't be area and a nigga, man, as an ignorant man, there's always a better way. And I don't seem to like Tom, you said a while ago that is bringing in more people and you know, don't, you have any responsibility to your job. These are your people.
[00:23:59] Yeah, you [00:24:00] can't sit them off the war without a gun. That's what you're doing know during the season. Um, I would do, if you could get them to train, it's not these Qubole players do not like to live wage. Most of them, and they're barely looked like they were born here, but if he did the machines, you know, the hamstring machines, the hip machines, that K box got that K by K box is sick.
[00:24:20] That thing is slow as Citrix. So it won't make you expose them, but it puts a lot of size on your legs. A lot of the boys, if they got an itch, bigger Lake that in turn will make them a bigger bodybuilder, even though you don't try to be strong, it's stronger than a little about the builder, right? Why?
[00:24:34] Because you've got bigger muscles. It's the size principle. We talked about that one day. That's right. And you know what happens? They get out of shape. Uh, like, uh, a friend, uh, w one time told me, he said, well, you know, Lou there's 16 games in the NFL. Johnny Parker got four Superbowl rigs. I said, no, Johnny, there was only eight dealers play half a game.
[00:24:53] He played offense. He played defense. He said, I never thought of that. They have a freaking game and they get back. They [00:25:00] get banked up, not even touching anyone have to time big as ballistic movements, but they give you safe if you're super strong.
[00:25:06] John Quint: [00:25:06] So, so here's a question for, I guess, both of you guys. Do you think that the reason why the players may not like to lift per se is because they haven't been rewarded from the, from what they've done, because maybe the training hasn't been what they need.
[00:25:23] Right. Do you get what I'm saying? Because I feel like, uh, some of the elite level guys, they want to train, they just don't know what they need to train at. Do you know what I mean? So it's almost like. I, I feel like, I feel like that may be a huge part of the issue where guys are like, well, I don't want to do this.
[00:25:42] Cause I may mess myself up because they just don't understand that, Hey, this is what you need, because I feel like if you were able to supply them with what they needed and they could understand it. I do think a lot of the guys
[00:25:54] Louie Simmons: [00:25:54] proven program. Yeah. It sounds like you said about the Brown seven off venture defensive coordinators every year.
[00:26:00] [00:25:59] There's no proven program. Thank God to look halfway decent this year. But you know, normally there's no other program without planning you plan to fail.
[00:26:08] John Quint: [00:26:08] Yeah.
[00:26:09] Tom Barry: [00:26:09] I think a big issue is they're told what to do from such a young age that they don't know how to think for themselves correctly. Like I'm not, that's not a stab at them.
[00:26:19] It's that they're so headstrong on football, football, football, learn this play, learn that play, run this route. And they're so genetically gifted. Like some of these guys are so gifted that you give them a Bosu ball and a skipping rope. They will be phenomenal no matter what. But I think from a young age, the coaches never put any emphasis on how important strain the conditioning is.
[00:26:38] But if you look at the bigger guys, defensive ends of authentic guys, Those guys grew up lifting weights. A lot of these guys and they just from their own experience knew how important that was. But a lot of wide receivers and skill players, they're just told run this, run this and this. And when they get to the NFL, they don't know what to do because they've been told what to do from such a young age.
[00:26:57] So you're right. There's no reward. There's no nothing. But if you [00:27:00] told them, if you would give them definitives, Hey, you are 100% going to run faster. You're going to have a bigger quality of life. You're going to jump higher, do everything that you want even better. At a young age, they don't understand it.
[00:27:10] I don't think it's there.
[00:27:12] John Quint: [00:27:12] So
[00:27:12] Louie Simmons: [00:27:12] when did I tell you why I don't work with them? Yeah. Um, you might as well just be in the show for, you know what I mean? I'm not going to do that. Ain't that good? They're just big. Yeah.
[00:27:22] Tom Barry: [00:27:22] But, um, but they'll do miraculous things like you you'd be in the gym and they'll jump and there's no way he can jump in this box and then cold jump on a 64 inch block.
[00:27:29] Right. They'll do apps. Some of them in two weeks they get so scared. Cause they get so strong that they're like, Whoa, Whoa, what's going on? Like, that's not. In the realm of what they're used to.
[00:27:39] Louie Simmons: [00:27:39] I don't know. I know a lot of people do, Oh no, I was that well, but we run a system called the wave periodization.
[00:27:45] It runs in three week waves and we, because we're strength athletes, we go 85, 81st week, 85 90, we do 25 squats. And twenty-five Denis at that. It's very high volume, the weights and the velocity is slightly slower than a [00:28:00] lot of sports. Weight lifters would do 75. 80 and 85. All right. Okay. So all my work is designed for one purpose to become strong or to speech reflect, write letters just had to be fast with heavy objects.
[00:28:14] We don't have to be fast with heavy objects. All right. But the key is this training came from sports. Uh, people don't know this. So if you've got, if you've got a football, you got a soccer team and you want him to squat three or 50 pounds. You set the wave up for 350 pounds, 80. You know, see 75, 80, 85%.
[00:28:33] They will maintain that 250 pound squad all year long and won't get hurt. There's no need for squat six and her sharing the burden. I'll be able to squat 150 either. But if you set that wave up, all that training is designed to make them better. You're in, you're out. That's why we get so good. And we don't get hurt that it's come from a team, you know, team sports, but here team sports don't want to do it.
[00:28:54] And they don't know. They don't know anything. I don't know anything about football. Hello crap about football was where I learned. Well, the [00:29:00] nickel defense. I don't have to know this, but you know what? Budget string, coach, I know strength. You guys have anything you want? I'll answer the question. I've taken super strong guys.
[00:29:08] 2,403 and a half years later, 29, 30 and on. So that's easy. This stuff is easy. If you look at it in our sport, the top 25 totals we have about 22 all time. How could that be out of a private gym with no sign? Because we have a system and we follow it exact what you're saying.
[00:29:28] John Quint: [00:29:28] Yeah. That's the, that's the, that's the real issue.
[00:29:31] So it, it only compounds from there because think about it. There's no system. Uh, there was no strength and conditioning that is set up. Right. So then on the backend, do you think that there's a rehabilitation setup when these guys get injured? No. So, I mean, it just gets deeper and deeper. Like, like I, yeah, that's the reason why I feel bad for the, the athletes stuck in the system because, um, it's interesting.
[00:29:59] Like, [00:30:00] uh, I think the last time we discussed, brought up a statistic about 40 times. Right. What was the statistic? They, uh,
[00:30:08] Tom Barry: [00:30:08] as soon as they got the college, after four years, I went down, I never got any
[00:30:12] Louie Simmons: [00:30:12] 157, not 200 wench, uh, no faster or slower.
[00:30:17] John Quint: [00:30:17] Right. So, so, so it's interesting. I don't know the demographics of that study, but, uh, that's obviously not a good study,
[00:30:24] Louie Simmons: [00:30:24] right.
[00:30:24] Top Asia, top recruit out of high school and, you know, and top five for re going in the NFL.
[00:30:30] John Quint: [00:30:30] Right. Right. So
[00:30:31] Louie Simmons: [00:30:31] when you know, the UNIA value and adopt an agreement,
[00:30:34] John Quint: [00:30:34] that's what I'm saying. So it's kind of weird because I feel like I'm right now. Maybe college football, um, strength, staffs are getting rewarded just because they have access to the best players and the best recruiting.
[00:30:47] Right. And because they only have to maintain that for, let's say three to four years. Right. Those methods of training, which, you know, may not be actually increasing performance or improving performance, get [00:31:00] rewarded. And do you know what I mean? And then, and then that system, that system continues to then grow.
[00:31:06] Within college football, which then obviously that trickles up into the, into the NFL and trickles down into high school football.
[00:31:14] Louie Simmons: [00:31:14] You guys aren't as old as me put together, but years ago, Oh, we do the Nebraska program. What the Nebraska program, you know, they go won the national champion and they think they know how to lift weights.
[00:31:24] They're out of their mind. Yeah, I've gotten weird. Why can't we go play football while I make them football team? Oh my gosh. Down there. You know, I, I, you know, it does just, for instance, all I did was work on the hamstrings and inverse girls eyes. Can they cause clots. All right. And, uh, and glue him, rays and reverse hybrid.
[00:31:45] The kid ran 10, 10 and a hundred minutes, big 10 indoor champion. He could run 60 buddies, slow down, ran 10 47 and a hundred. I say, coach, I say, where come from? Cause I don't give a damn because I never got any credit for this high state coaches in 1986 or [00:32:00] seven, he said, Georgia Ray Pfizer. I had him nine weeks here in 10, 17 this year, 2020.
[00:32:06] They duplicated and I attended 17 at that school this year. Kevin Nakeds in 1987 through seven 70 foot 10. It is still the school record at Ohio state. You think they'd ever come down to that? Well, Ashley did now. She gets a really good third and I'm not taking credit because he's a smart girl, very technical, but she didn't know the wage, but she came to us, learn to license.
[00:32:28] She's killing. These people now got four girls that were 15, 16, got a girl that she says can just about Dennis 700,
[00:32:36] Tom Barry: [00:32:36] the. A big problem.
[00:32:38] Louie Simmons: [00:32:38] And I want to say, I mean, I don't give a damn I don't have no ego. I could, I could care less because they're not here, but a guy called me your day is go to this one to world championship in hammer throw first time, like it's been, I don't know if it's ever been done for American.
[00:32:52] This girl on Penn three in Iraq pulled 700 and she hang cleans three 41. He does. They do her [00:33:00] program. I'm not, I take that much credit, but you know, he's a good technical coach, but why are these, all of these different sports HD pay and years ago, Kevin Ronald, why were they UFC heavyweight champions? Uh, you just need a freaking system.
[00:33:13] It don't matter what damn sport it is, but
[00:33:16] Tom Barry: [00:33:16] to build upon that system. And not kind of playing devil's advocate, I guess, but a strength coach can be a strength coach because they're attached and football to the head coach, whatever he says to do do they're not independent. So then you run into like, well, do I lose my job?
[00:33:31] Because some of these guys know what to do. They're just so afraid to try to step out of the boundaries. Cause the Luther job, how many sprinklers do we know have moved five or six times? Oh, Hey coach goes, but I don't understand why a strength conditioning staff are not independent. Like, because your job is to make athletes better.
[00:33:47] You should be working for the athlete, not for the organization, but they work for the organization. So their job is to recruit. Okay. Hey, make sure these guys don't get injured. And if they get injured, make sure there's someone there to back up. That's all I think like [00:34:00] once you have that fundamental flaw, how can you fucking develop goals?
[00:34:04] John Quint: [00:34:04] Well, what's interesting too, is, uh, this, I believe it was this year, but. Uh, someone was explaining to me that one of the top programs, the head strength and conditioning coach left the program to go to another school where he's the special teams coach. Right. Which is, which is quite odd to me.
[00:34:25] Right. But I think that shows the state of strength and conditioning right there, the position of strength and conditioning coach. When you, when you understand what strength is. That's that that title is not, that should not be there. Right. It's almost like these guys. Um, I don't even know how to describe it because when you see the programming that's being done, it, it doesn't answer questions.
[00:34:53] It just, it just brings up more questions as to what is going on here. Like how are you guys investing your [00:35:00] time, your energy to do work. And is that work actually making these guys better? Right.
[00:35:06] Louie Simmons: [00:35:06] Wait, wait, well, you said it to me, players got bad programs and they don't believe them. So why wouldn't he do them?
[00:35:11] Yeah. Uh, too many guys use bodybuilding magazines. I've talked to them. They bodybuilding magazines, tracer football team. You can't do that. It doesn't cause you want to buy the bills. You want a bunch of bodybuilders, you know?
[00:35:21] John Quint: [00:35:21] Yeah. And it's interesting too. Um, a university here reached out to me to work with a basketball player.
[00:35:28] Uh, the strength coach did. Right. And it was pretty interesting. So after we figured it out, like, okay, y'all come down there, I'll assess this guy. We'll try to get him on some sort of program. Right. And he was a, he was a senior. Right. Well, what happened was, uh, call back from the strength coach and they go, Oh actually, yeah, you can't come here and work with them athlete because, uh, the he's injured and now you don't have him.
[00:35:55] I mean, it could be just a bullshit excuse, right? But initially it was interesting talking to him [00:36:00] before that I was trying to acquire more information on what the history of the kid was. Right. And he said, part of the reason why the strength staff is having issues right now is because this kid, when he came in as a freshmen, had the same exact issue.
[00:36:16] So for three years, he's put work in and now you can tell that they're kind of desperate. So they reach out to see if they can bring someone else in to get a different perspective. Right. But the thing is. They don't want, they don't want the help. They don't want, uh, they don't want maybe you two eyes for a reason to give you different feedback.
[00:36:34] Right. They don't want a second eye. They don't want that. So it, uh, I feel bad for the athletes. And I think I, I do you think the intent of a lot of coaches is to do good? Oh, I really do. But I think that maybe, like you said, they're going to the wrong resources. Right. And they're not.
[00:36:53] Louie Simmons: [00:36:53] I see, I see. Don't interrupt, but I see a lot of things in basketball.
[00:36:57] Uh, you know, you get these big kids, like, uh, you know, at [00:37:00] Zola in this year zone, they've right out of the, you know, he's a freshman right off he's in the NBA. He doesn't get the NBA. He's already towards neon. And the guy here years ago, can't think of his name. He real big center, freshmen left and blew up open patellas Odom.
[00:37:15] They've got, they're taking these kids too soon. They're not prepared. Uh, for this rigorous play that you're putting on the basketball court in the NBA. Now they've gone from playing 30 games to 82, that was uncountable rentals and they can't sustain it. And they're just killing these kids and they don't do anything but play ball.
[00:37:32] Tom Barry: [00:37:32] Well, look how look at coaches it's ass backwards. Um, well, especially up in these States, the high school strength coach has no clue what they're doing. Cause they're not a strength coach. They're just fill a position, but really that's where they get most fucked up is in high school. Then they go to college.
[00:37:47] They don't get any better than to go to the NFL. Where if you go down South, look at Texas, look at Alabama, they have powerlifting in their high schools and these kids are phenomenally strong
[00:37:57] Louie Simmons: [00:37:57] and Texas.
[00:37:58] Tom Barry: [00:37:58] They come with the one kid [00:38:00] from Alabama, nine 69, 70 squat and Jim trunks and here, but that's the big difference.
[00:38:05] Like the injury rates is way different. But here there's no emphasis on, you got the highest paid strength coaches in the NFL and collegiate, but high school, nothing but the come in to that program, like how many more athletes will you get? If you've got a better high school strength, conditioning program
[00:38:20] Louie Simmons: [00:38:20] and longevity then?
[00:38:20] Yep. I keep telling them I was, if you play one more year, you're gone. You know, it's a lot of money for these guys, you know? And you don't, you don't, you know what it's like, you don't have that kind of big money. You wish someone had it. I don't want to begrudge them. Hey, you make another eight, $10 million.
[00:38:36] If you play a lime, have you played another year? Yeah.
[00:38:40] Tom Barry: [00:38:40] You got to see it from you see the end results of Porsche and the conditioning. Cause from a joint, like what do you see? Just say from a hip and you know, his age, that's why his ACL is going to go. Like, how do you tell them, Hey, you got a good chance of tearing your ACL.
[00:38:55] Does anyone actually heed your advice or did just go back to normal?
[00:38:58] John Quint: [00:38:58] Yeah. Um, [00:39:00] it's interesting, right? Like, uh, I have the, I think I have a unique background from having the opportunity to be here and seeing how a system should be wrong and understanding that the system needs to be in place. And from that, because my, because I'm a therapist, so.
[00:39:16] Uh, on top of that, I run the same assessment. So like, you guys have a training system. I have an assessment system, which is basically called an FRA where I use objective data. And the objective data is how much passive joint range of motion that they have. And then in conjunction with a ratio of how much active they have.
[00:39:35] So for instance, the reason why that's important is let's say that you have someone that does yoga. Right. They may have a ton of flexibility, but then when you ask them to actively move into that range, they have no control. They have no ability to generate force, right? So this is a high risk injury person, right?
[00:39:52] The other would be it's totally restricted. So there's no space. If you just conceptually think of a joint as a space where [00:40:00] two bones articulated, but don't touch. And the more space you have, the more rotation that you would have. Does that make sense? So, uh, for instance, unfortunately, the college that I went to, I was treating, uh, was treating that quarterback and he came in for a low back issue.
[00:40:17] I assessed this hip joint and I saw that his hip joint was really what was his back was compensating for his hip. Right. He had a serious issue with his hip, which would make him a high indicator for an ACL. Right. And so I told his father that, and I told his father, I'm like, listen, I know he's complaining his back, but realistically, you want to do this?
[00:40:38] Well, unfortunately he did tear his ACL that year. Right now. That's just one instance. But what you can do when you start to get this data on athlete, it's like getting a lift. Right. When you start to see discrepancies, right. You can start to see like, okay, this person doesn't have a lot of adaptability in this joint, which means that if that joint is pushed to the end range, [00:41:00] right.
[00:41:00] They're not going to be able to adapt and thus the they'll accommodate and then boom, that's the injury. Right? So from my perspective, it's quite interesting. Having been able to standardize that assessment, run that assessment and then to be able to, uh, be able to then have all those. So then the other thing that I do is, uh, I have a computer program where then I put all the data in so that I can start to monitor that athletes joint health over time, like you would monitor strength, right?
[00:41:28] Well then what you can see is the deterioration of all these joint ranges of motion as they continue to play. Right. Which is a high indicator that, yeah, they don't have the ability to move because you don't have the ability to move. You can't generate force where you can't move. Now you're not as strong.
[00:41:44] Right. So I can see it from a couple of different perspectives. And I think that's another issue is when you say, okay, well, are they doing anything for strength and conditioning development? That's systematic to meet their needs. You go, no. So you go, okay, [00:42:00] well, on the back end, are they doing anything for their joint health?
[00:42:02] Right? Because when you look at joint health, that is the number one indicator. For why these guys have to retire or why they have to quit and you go, do they have a system in place for that? And you go, no. So now you go, okay. Like any little thing will help these guys. That's the reason why when they come here, you can like the, the need is immediate.
[00:42:20] Like it's almost, uh, when you run the system, you immediately, we know like, okay, this is exactly what they need. And you just input that in. And especially the high level guys. They're so genetically gifted that when they understand that and they start to use it and then you start to program it in a logical manner, they just take off.
[00:42:41] Right. But yeah, I think, I think that's another issue in, in my opinion. Is the fact that no, one's really assessing these athletes.
[00:42:50] Louie Simmons: [00:42:50] Right?
[00:42:51] John Quint: [00:42:51] So like, like, like all the stuff that, that you guys are doing here and all the stuff that you read for, right. They were always assessing the athletes [00:43:00] to get that feedback from the athletes to see like, how are these athletes being able to do these strength needs.
[00:43:06] Right. You don't see any of that going on in the NFL. Do you get what I'm saying? No model to even reverse engineer. How do you make an elite level wide receiver alignment? You wouldn't know, you know how to make an elite level lifter because you can replicate it and do it all the time. Does that make sense?
[00:43:25] Louie Simmons: [00:43:25] Well, I try, I've had 34 people. It's quite a thousand. I'll get 35, but when you get number one, yeah. And, you know, that's the only thing you're talking about. Joint mobility. I bring ballplayers in here. They could barely set that. They say, well, we have no flexibility can wide squat. So I put a box in there.
[00:43:42] I get about 17 it's on a box, set, a box correctly belts, or a box squatting, and you release the muscles. Then you can track them and you come up. So one of the greatest methods is drink, drink, relax, ever, combined dynamic. So then you take an inch out. Nigga don't have box and another engineer inch, I walked around here.
[00:43:57] 12 I've taken it out. Five inches. It takes [00:44:00] five minutes. They're going, Oh my God, he's a genius. I'm not a genius. I'm just doing a symptomatic way to gain range of motion. You want range of motion of your chest, the best way to use the camera. Barbara had Canberra. You know, you have three inches off your chest, a little more weight, two and a half.
[00:44:15] Now the point to pretend you're touching your chest, you got range of motion. It's pretty damn simple. If he just did the exercise, that's why wide Sumo, for instance, you know, he's actually able to build flexibility out where they're going to be. Hmm. No. Have you ever watched football game when you watch a kickoff?
[00:44:30] Look at the center, it looks like he's in a power squat. Well, you need them. It's just going out there and I'm going, what the hell's wrong with you? People, you know, dictates that the big kid to Jim, your day, he's like 250 pounds. I said, get your feet in clothes. Now I'm an old man decrepit ready to die. So he gets in close and I hit him in short.
[00:44:46] I'd knocked him over into the plows. We said, take your feet out. I hit him like hitting the rock. What the fuck? What part of this? Don't they understand. No, I just, I don't get it. I'm never going to [00:45:00] get it, but because they're never going to, the problem is the hardest thing for human being to do is change.
[00:45:05] I see it in sports, basically in tactics, you watch an NBA game and we'll watch the other night Ady gets a foul. So he don't party play in the second quarter. Right. They keep him out of the game to the fourth quarter. You can lose a game in the second quarter to third quarter. You don't have to lose it in the fourth quarter.
[00:45:22] Have they loved him in a game who had, he had gotten his fourth foul? When the hell knows. And whenever it takes stats on this, no, because every coach in his freaking world says our back has done it the same goddamn way they don't change. I watched the Browns game. They're killing, they're killing the white killing Dallas what'd they do going to prevent defense that scored 24 points in the quarter.
[00:45:46] Good thing. I don't own that team kid goes soft. I would blitz every damn, you know, I would, whatever got me there. That's what I would do. I would not go soft and let them March down that field that once eat the fiber 25 yard. Yes. Pathetic. Why? Because that's [00:46:00] all they know. And I'll guarantee you, if you took his dad.
[00:46:03] Most of the points that the bogey scored in the last two minutes and a half that's two minutes. This is the final game soft. So why did they do it? But they keep doing it. It's not, it cannot be right. No one can say you can score 24 points in the quarter after I help the team down to nothing. And you think you're doing the right thing?
[00:46:20] I don't know. But when you deal with people like, God, how are you going to get him changed? I guess you can't give him he's a gambler low in the weight room. People say, well, weights. Aren't that important? Well, how come he's waiting rooms and college, half a million dollars. No, they do it in very least at the very least.
[00:46:36] Yeah. You hear the commentaries gotta get in the weight room, gotta get it in the weight room. These are older guys. You got to go here. No, 19 year old kid up and they got to get in the weight room. You're going to hear the old men go get in the waiting room. Cause they know what the weight rooms them.
[00:46:51] Tom Barry: [00:46:51] You know, when the first just a NFL string coach came here, the first NFL team, what year around?
[00:46:57] Louie Simmons: [00:46:57] Well, Joey Batson had come here early nineties, but Joey was [00:47:00] powerlifter. Yeah. I had to show him how he'd done it. Now. He's a Clemson. As, how did you do it? And he said, I handled the weights and I got a guy to handle the cone drills. Let me just work it out because I don't know, nobody don't come to him, you know, but he's smart guy, obviously he's pretty damn successful,
[00:47:16] Tom Barry: [00:47:16] but out of all, the hundreds of has to be hundreds.
[00:47:18] Not thousands coaches have came here. How many have actually take heat of the advice and implemented it correctly?
[00:47:25] Louie Simmons: [00:47:25] I'd have to be there, but I'd say, I mean, a lot of them do, but I'd say they're probably doing 50%. Yeah. It was like cooking and fell. 50% of the ingredients. It's not going to be, it goes what we're cooking.
[00:47:36] You got to jump. There's a reason not we do what we do is like sled. If they would just pull sleds, pull sleds, they'd eliminate all this stuff. Push wheel barrels. My friend, uh, told me that he worked at the Sage for knee injuries. So used, because this is how I brought my knee back a lot. When I blew my patella half, he used us a sled.
[00:47:59] Jesse Kellam. I [00:48:00] mean, he is a Wilbur said we're bells. It's like a crutch, but it's got wheels. So if you walk in you'll, you can put all the way to one, you'll be very methodical with the bad leg and then you'll be on one leg and then the other leg and build a C, 11 bilateral deficit. And if you get in trouble, put the wheelbarrow down and I bought used the Wellborn for that kind of stuff.
[00:48:20] Now I'd never heard anyone else ever do this. They do that. Yeah, another point I want to bring up everybody's facing track. Oh, here, bilateral deficit by now, Jesse, I want to go to you guys. You're doing bilateral deficit work, put a book, put them on a machine. They got loud deficit. They're never going to correct it.
[00:48:38] I think it's human nature. Why do I take off like this? You know, what's that like out front? Why do I do that? Why do you, why do you fight this way? Or maybe you fight that way. Why. It's it's nature. And that you're always going to have a dominant side. I don't care how much bilateral work you do. You're never going to correct it.
[00:48:54] The kid I had up here was second to 200 and the Olympics put him in my pilot swing. He had to be a [00:49:00] minimum of 40% off one night. And this just says, you know, you don't get a lot better. You know, the second the freaking Olympics. And he had terrible bilateral deficit. I seen it always all the time and how I've always corrected.
[00:49:13] It brought up as close to good as ultralight. Why do you go to wider? Dwight is this first in above legs? If you're in here, you're going to teeter-totter but you're out wide. You could need, the weight is dispersed evenly into both legs. That's the fast I've ever brought the bottle out deficit, but no, that's another, but they don't do it.
[00:49:33] Tom Barry: [00:49:33] The one person says I've been here, that's come back and forth. That's been consistent and their team's results prove it's a different sport. Was Dan the passcode. Then the Pasqua, the head coach is smart enough to keep his staff off of them, all long-term contracts. And then their most amount of injuries are in the off season, but they're little injuries and they're, they're like strategize, like, okay, we can afford to have small injuries here, find the weaknesses and go [00:50:00] there.
[00:50:00] The first team, as far as I know, to have on retainer, arresting and jujitsu coach for hand-to-hand combat. They thought outside the box. But if you look statistically, the Melbourne storm are one of the most consistent teams. Fall was finishing top of the, well, look at the players. They put out,
[00:50:14] Louie Simmons: [00:50:14] he, I told him to do that.
[00:50:16] I don't know if you know that, but he's hit me table in time. I've grown like crush. I got an under safe this guy. I mean, this is what the hell he's doing, you know? So I thought, well, what can I say? I said, I get a grand Prairie in their off season. And they did. But, I mean, I watched that tape and dad, dad was like, this is, you know, he could run my team.
[00:50:35] They did everything hitting heavy bomb. You name it. They did at home.
[00:50:38] Tom Barry: [00:50:38] You know what he does. He trains.
[00:50:40] Louie Simmons: [00:50:40] Yeah. That's right.
[00:50:42] John Quint: [00:50:42] Yeah. You're talking about Dan, if you don't,
[00:50:44] Louie Simmons: [00:50:44] you don't have goals for yourself, how can they go for
[00:50:47] John Quint: [00:50:47] right. You've got to have some skin in the game. Yeah. Because if not, then you get what's called the expert problem.
[00:50:54] Right. But I think that's a good point too. Like it's interesting. Like, because Dan has that system [00:51:00] set up, right? His whole goal is to fail and to fail fast because the fail is now learning opportunities. So he's able to learn at an incredibly fast rate when you have no system in place and you start to fail, you have no idea.
[00:51:12] Like there's no feedback loop to tell you why you're
[00:51:14] Louie Simmons: [00:51:14] failing, go off the
[00:51:15] John Quint: [00:51:15] rails. Yeah. Which is, which is quite scary. And that's the reason why it's like a. Uh, like, that's why once again, like working with these guys, it's like, you're trying to get them constrained onto some sort of system. So that like, even if it's not the most perfect system, at least they can learn from it.
[00:51:33] That's what that's the issue I have is when, when the injuries continue to happen, that people aren't really learning from them. So then that means that you're just going to continue that vicious cycle of the same injuries, which is what you continuously see.
[00:51:46] Tom Barry: [00:51:46] Well, if you look at the system, you've created a culture too.
[00:51:49] And that's a big thing. Cause people, everyone to have breakfast together, everyone talks. But a big thing that I thought was interesting when Dan came over, everyone goes to different places on [00:52:00] their vacations to learn. And when they all come back, they all share their notes. Or what did you learn? What did you learn?
[00:52:05] What? And they go, okay, that might work, but they all talk and they share ideas and they're not afraid to be stupid, but like, okay, this might be a stupid idea, but this is what I don't know, work for him. And that guy calls, he looks through all the papers, all the world. And he saw, I remember as a high school coach had a huge net result in the shop, but he called up the coach like, Hey, how'd you do it always willing to learn and not
[00:52:27] Louie Simmons: [00:52:27] afraid to ask questions, you know, coach, because he was afraid to look stupid.
[00:52:31] That's why I, uh, basically are the foremost person in the band training. He said he was afraid to be looked stupid. I said, I'm not afraid to look stupid. Now I've thought about these bands are changed the whole world. You know, combination of method training, and uh, it's just, thank God he was, thank God. He didn't have the confidence to try it because I got crumbs to try anything.
[00:52:51] John Quint: [00:52:51] Yeah. Um, the other interesting part about Dan is I remember, uh, me and him went out to dinner [00:53:00] and he's the only strength coach that I've talked to, where he showed up with a pad of paper like Lou has and had just a list of questions. And I remember having to stop it midway through and be like, Hey man, I'm here to learn from YouTube.
[00:53:11] So like when do I get to start to ask questions? Right. But I think he's a, he's definitely a special coach for sure. Yeah.
[00:53:23] Tom Barry: [00:53:23] I think that's. We've covered a good bit at any concluding remarks.
[00:53:28] Louie Simmons: [00:53:28] I could care less, less if you do my program or not. Because all I want to do is kick people's ass out of these four walls, but if they don't need to do the simple Westside program, they will eliminate 90% of their injuries and they, and they would want a lot more ballgames.
[00:53:41] Cause they're started playing with me on a bench because it's a very simple program. It's all based on velocity training. If you talk to people about strength, I knew and realize shrinks measuring velocity, not, not weight, it's measuring velocity. So when they get that in their head, they don't read. I had coaches here a couple weeks.
[00:53:59] I'd never read a [00:54:00] book in their life, their form stock near West side. Right. I'm going like, what the hell are you calling this? Well, I can't say, but I mean, it was, it was crazy, but you're just going in a major, major college. And you're going like either. I've got to be kidding me, man.
[00:54:18] John Quint: [00:54:18] So, so here's, here's an interesting question.
[00:54:21] Cause I know that you've probably already thought about this and YouTube. So like if you were tasked with being inserted into a collegiate football program, right. And you were able to set up your system. Like, where would, where would, how would you, what would be the entry point? So, you know what I mean?
[00:54:41] Like, like, like what, what is it that you would, you would like if you had to create your hierarchy, what would be the number one thing that you would want to input from like a, from an exercise perspective? Like, what do you think is.
[00:54:56] Louie Simmons: [00:54:56] I would just use the waves best squad, dilute cleaners, snip powered.
[00:55:00] [00:54:59] Satch I use the waves because it works. And then I would, I look at all my athletes and they evaluate where the weak and they'll make a go do the younger sizes. Even if I had to buy machines, they would go do the, if you don't have reverse hyper in your gender, there's something wrong with you. And here's this, there's something wrong with you.
[00:55:15] Don't give a damn about nobody. Right? And, uh, so, but I would, I would emphasize bringing him to weaknesses and all of these ballplayers, they got tremendous strengths and central tremendous weaknesses. You can't blend three more hundred horse area hood of your car. And don't think you're going to blow the rear end out of break an axle.
[00:55:33] It just can't be yelling. It all has to come up, but if they, I have a plan and it's, it's optimal. They do too much. They don't do enough. You know what I mean? It's just, that's the way it goes. And why are they afraid of that deadlift? Why are they afraid to train her neck and lower back? What are they afraid that because they don't know how, but
[00:55:54] Tom Barry: [00:55:54] I think the build upon that I'd get all the coaches and I'd educate the coaches first because the [00:56:00] athletes are simple.
[00:56:00] Because if they'll, if they listen to you, cause they want to get better, it's the other coaches and their ego is the fucking problem. And if you can't get along with them and they can't buy into the system, because everyone plays a part. Because if you're going to train them up to me and then a coach is going to run them into the dirt, well, then you just, all your stuff's going on the window.
[00:56:16] Louie Simmons: [00:56:16] Right. That's why the ballplayers run slower. They run some much, they over oxidizer bodies and they get the velvet net more, more toward adorned athletes and they can't run fast anymore.
[00:56:27] John Quint: [00:56:27] So here's, here's an interesting question. Um, so, you know, like, like when I'm treating someone I'm treating, let's say their hip joint, like we're doing isometrics, right.
[00:56:36] To treat this hip joint. Okay. And inevitably that hip joint is going to be sore because we're taking it to its end range isometrics for a certain duration at different efforts. Right. And it's interesting. Some of the feedback that I get is they're like, Oh, like I always tell people now, Hey, this is going to be sore.
[00:56:52] Right. Do you think that maybe the lack of actual training experience that the athletes have because I'll get texts, even, even when I try to really [00:57:00] communicate with the athlete, Hey, this is going to be sore. I don't think we should push this. Especially if it's in season. Do you think that some of it is like when you're talking about like the low back for instance, or the neck that guys just aren't used to being sore from training.
[00:57:12] So they almost think that. What they did
[00:57:16] Louie Simmons: [00:57:16] hurt them.
[00:57:16] John Quint: [00:57:16] Right. And so they stay away from it when realistically it should be like, well, your that's called sore. That's delayed onset muscle soreness.
[00:57:26] Louie Simmons: [00:57:26] uh, uh, unfamiliarity of an exercise or over-training they get sore from over-training and that's why they get okay.
[00:57:33] I believe. Why do they come in every year? You've got to get them ready for spring ball. Why are they out of shape in the first place? People said, what are you doing in the off season? Oh, I know off season. I'm going to go crawl, have Weber mountain and just go back down and next week, get halfway back up again.
[00:57:49] And he crawled back down. I wasn't here at the top of the mountain. So, you know, you got is Mount Everest going to stages, right? You don't go to stage five and he goes back to four. He goes days five, stage six till you [00:58:00] finally get to the top of the mountain. You just got to raise your work capacity work.
[00:58:03] I know we had guys came in. I got a new guy come in, Tom heat. Two says he's done. I mean, just having them. They're big Eric. He brought his buddy in two sets. He's on there. He's on the ground for, I mean the both of them, they can't like, it's not, they're thrown up, they're blown up and I'm going like this, this, this, how can I got a girl that's called seven 30 and at one 32.
[00:58:26] This is quite seven 45 at six 71, 23. How can they do it? And you can't do it. It's all based off your strength. Not, no, I'm not putting you through something you can't do. You know, like, you know, right now, if we brought a kid in your witness, you wouldn't ask to take a, we bought a 12 year old. You'd have even to a six year old reader, PhD.
[00:58:44] And that's exactly how our training set up for six year olds, 10 year olds, 20 year olds, whatever. You know, and hopefully as you get better in the Soviet union, you know, you trade for 13 to 15, they evaluate you 15 to 17. They evaluated 17 to 19. They [00:59:00] evaluate 1921. You're polishing, you're going. And I always bring this up.
[00:59:04] I know I've said it before, but the last, some of these two Chinese girls divers, and I think he got first and second and one of the dives, there's another Chinese girl. She dove for, uh, Australia. Why? Because he wasn't polished. You got to progress as you go, you just can't get this up. Like you can't get to a freshman level of college and think you're going to be in the NFL for five years.
[00:59:26] It's not going to work. That's why it won't, you know, you'll remember, uh, the kid here in town, he tried to get in the NFL and he wasn't and he was, he was a bowl. Can't think of his name who won the national championship in 2004 or they had documentaries about him. What the hell was his name? But it goes a bowl.
[00:59:47] So you can't, you know, you can't come in and his age, you know, boom, boom, smart
[00:59:52] Tom Barry: [00:59:52] to build upon with Lou and to answer. And you know, this one was, and Lou always told me about [01:00:00] a big thing I've learned here. I'm like lose this. Can't be true. You'd lie in like discount. And then sadly it turns out to be true as time goes on and turns out to be more and more true.
[01:00:10] But we worked with a high level athlete. And we evaluated. And we worked with them, went through all the machines. We knew how Wiki was and we started build them up and we knew it was work capacity low. He pushed his work capacity up to see where it was, kill him, the training session now, not weeded, but he tried to kill it, like push himself.
[01:00:28] And I told you, John, I'm like, Oh, he texted me like, Oh, I'm sore. I'm like, well, you're so cause you're out of shape. But I said, the first person to get bland is going to be the strength coach and watch this, um, Seven days later had an event didn't do too good. Was sick. Was everything who got blamed.
[01:00:46] Strength, conditioning was doing too much when in fact they hadn't do, then I learned to Devin. So like Cottonwood that they don't to look bad in the gym. Some of these guys do not like to look bad and to wear [01:01:00] the weight will kick your ass. Regardless, the weight doesn't lie and they were getting kicked in the butt with that and to wear slowly but surely.
[01:01:07] Strength conditioning got phased out. And as that one phased out what happened? The body went backwards. They started getting injured and performance with them and that happens a whole lot.
[01:01:17] Louie Simmons: [01:01:17] Well, they always blame the drink coach.
[01:01:21] John Quint: [01:01:21] Yeah. That's um, I think it's interesting what you were saying though, too, is the evaluation process that the Soviets had.
[01:01:31] Right. And it's the same thing, man. Like what?
[01:01:34] Louie Simmons: [01:01:34] The rule of three, I wrote a book on it. They find out right away like me and you and Tom, yo buy it by 10 years old. They're kind of directing us into some type of sport. Not just cause my dad played football. I got a football come along. You see that all the time.
[01:01:48] Although it is, you notice like, um, you know, I'm Coby Brian. There's, uh, there's three Brian's in there. And if he looks at the Bose's, there is exceptions, but everybody can't be like that. I always see [01:02:00] my Tyson's kid boxing. You'll see these marathon runners, their kids running marathons is,
[01:02:07] John Quint: [01:02:07] but what's interesting to me is like the Soviets kind of deconstructed what each sport needed.
[01:02:15] Do you understand what
[01:02:17] Louie Simmons: [01:02:17] they took that first Olympics? Do
[01:02:19] John Quint: [01:02:19] you say that again?
[01:02:21] Louie Simmons: [01:02:21] Who did it? Who did it take to in the first Olympics?
[01:02:24] John Quint: [01:02:24] I'm not sure
[01:02:25] Louie Simmons: [01:02:25] it took coaches. Cameraman and scientists, no athletes. I go to meet and I look at somebody just below my guy and I go and I watch what he does. I go, Oh, I pick us up.
[01:02:35] I went to Hawaii years ago. Yeah. It was mid eighties and only France had Eddie clone. He used his rock deadlifts. I said, I went back and do that. I went back and I couldn't, I couldn't do the zone, but I had a Chuck Vogel, PL and Mark Marinelli. Mark would remember I had him do it. They broke their record 20 and 20 pounds.
[01:02:54] There right then. So me being the coach, at least I brought back some of the work from my guys. Why? Because they had [01:03:00] different, they had longer arms than I did is what a Mount too. But I knew, I don't know why they could do it. And I can't. I know why their arms are four inches longer than my proportion to my body.
[01:03:10] So, but I've, I've picked that up. And I, you talked about just a minute ago, I was going to say something because we go to meet, I told Doug, eat them, go find out what he's doing. Find out what he's doing. Joe, go find you. Well, I'm going to steal fit and rich and him take, take it back and kick her ass.
[01:03:25] John Quint: [01:03:25] Yeah.
[01:03:25] Well, you're not reinventing the wheel modifying it. You're adding on to it. Right. And it changes the wheel of the
[01:03:30] Louie Simmons: [01:03:30] time. Yeah. I mean, I've seen these super-strong guys. I asked it was really strange because he didn't know he was doing an air today. Best Vincent now. Cause King of the dead lifters, you know, I said, Vince, what do you do?
[01:03:42] What makes your dealer go up? And he goes, Hey thing, I'll make my dealer go up. I'm going to walk kind of an asshole question or answer that. But. I did receive a dad. My dad was going up. He just said he could have some dead lifter.
[01:03:55] John Quint: [01:03:55] Yeah. But I still find
[01:03:57] Louie Simmons: [01:03:57] it. We didn't know it.
[01:04:00] [01:04:00] John Quint: [01:04:00] Right. Right. But through, through the feedback loops, you figured it out.
[01:04:06] Louie Simmons: [01:04:06] Exactly. And
[01:04:06] John Quint: [01:04:06] see that's where that, that's where I just don't like, I want to be optimistic for the guys in the NFL, the players. But, you know, in working with these guys and then you see what they're doing and you're just like, man, it's just, it's just all random work that isn't indicated it's even needing to be done.
[01:04:25] And then they have these massive blind spots because where you always get, you know, you use the Browns as another example, right. So they had no franchise quarterback for years, but they paid Joe tallest. Everything. Why? Because the majority of quarterbacks will only one quarterback left-handed quarterback has won a super bowl.
[01:04:45] So the left tackle is the blind spot and the Browns were at least intelligent enough to know that, listen, if we ever get a quarterback, we want their blind spot covered. Right. But from a physical capacity perspective, Uh, strength capacity. [01:05:00] All I see when I go into town and I assess these guys, I get their data is just blind spots, just layers of blind spots in it.
[01:05:08] And it gives me anxiety. I'm not even the athlete, right. Because there's no systems in place. To help these guys actually figure out what it is indicated that they need to do. And I think a lot of people get confused maybe when they look at the West side, cause they go, well, how is it? How is it that you already immediately know it's wool?
[01:05:29] Like the system that you were literally learning on the day of what you need and then you immediately inserted it, right? And that level, that the timely manner in which you can adapt your training to your needs. Is really what makes Westside significantly more.
[01:05:45] Louie Simmons: [01:05:45] That's why it's so progress. Is that fast,
[01:05:47] John Quint: [01:05:47] right?
[01:05:48] Exactly. Because it's always hitting the needs,
[01:05:50] Louie Simmons: [01:05:50] right. Are indicated we don't have to wait six months to figure out what downloads you guy needs. Right. No, right away, you know?
[01:05:55] John Quint: [01:05:55] Yeah. Because think about it and they ran cause I've considered this, like if they ran a study and they [01:06:00] said like, because there's no studies on the NFL or collegiate football and what they do for training from a training perspective, Right.
[01:06:06] So that's where it's kind of like the wild West where everyone's just out there doing. So you can't like from an outsider looking at it. I can't even look in there and say, well, this is what they're doing, because everyone's doing something different, which is weird because like, if you were to compare that to powerlifting, right?
[01:06:23] If you compare all offensive lineman and a powerlifter, they have the say, like an offensive lineman. When they're in high school, their job doesn't change. Right. So the determinants that they need to do, the job doesn't change and it's the same thing in powerlifting. So you would, so when I look at it, I would go, okay, well, there's gotta be some sort of systematic way of training only.
[01:06:42] There's not
[01:06:43] Louie Simmons: [01:06:43] exactly.
[01:06:45] John Quint: [01:06:45] Do you understand what I'm saying? Right. And I think that's the reason why people get so confused and they go, well, I don't understand why this system immediately outputs what it is that you need. And the reason why it's, because it's a system. And it's been in place. And then that's [01:07:00] how it continues to evolve over time.
[01:07:03] Tom Barry: [01:07:03] big thing here is from you and it's accountability. You hold yourself to ultra high standards, but then you hold everyone else to a higher standard than they can even think of themselves at the start. But every athlete here is accountable and that comes from the head down. But if you look at the NFL, the strength coach and not accountable, Like, he's sort of, certainly both the athletes, he doesn't care.
[01:07:25] He's afraid of losing his job so he can't train them. But here, and from the top down, you, you, your job as a coach is to make them smarter and better than you. Right. That's the first fundamental of that. Well, we actually give a shit to where if you do bad or good, cause we do bad. We're like, well, did we do bad?
[01:07:41] Is there something we it's all accountability. And as that feedback mechanism, okay, how can we make this better? That's missing there. There's no accountability. You're never home to have that study. Because they're going to get found out. You do an NFL study on training systems, what
[01:07:53] Louie Simmons: [01:07:53] systems?
[01:07:54] John Quint: [01:07:54] Well, it's funny that you mentioned that because I was talking to a former NFL player about this.
[01:07:59] Cause I was [01:08:00] trying to acquire more information on what exact, how exactly these guys spend their time. Right. And it's funny, he told me you won't find that study in college because you wouldn't see improvement. And it was interesting hearing someone's perspective that had been through. High level college football had played in the league for a sustained period of time.
[01:08:21] Right. You're like, Hey, you know what I'm asking for help? Like, how do I get this information? And he goes, Oh yeah. Like, you're not going to find that because what you would see if they studied it, they went like the results of the study.
[01:08:33] Louie Simmons: [01:08:33] Wow. I had a guy who trained here last as a senior in high school.
[01:08:37] And a six, five, seven, 15 pounds. So then he goes to a big school and he would go down and he would make up every choose to world that he didn't want to dream. And the team he'd come back and he'd be weak. I could, what the hell happened? You're not going to believe you tell me his whole story. Well, then he ended up going into the appellant.
[01:08:52] He, he played for five years, you know, retired, but he told me he went in one day almost to another team, won't say, but this guy, you know, he [01:09:00] bought squad 650 pounds, six, seven, three, 10. Bench 500, deadlifted a 600 over box because then he's, he's working up in his squat and he said, he's got about like five, five 75 or whatever it be.
[01:09:11] And it goes because what are you doing? He goes, I'm squatting. He goes not with that. You're not the guy. Bob's got a 650 pound parallel bags. Right. And I, you know, and another one that played another one, nine years played, uh, ended up at the Patriots. Very good ballplayer. He, I wrote an article 1984, how to bench 500 easy.
[01:09:28] You know, he, people remind me of these things, but he goes, because it had article, he said he played for nine years. He mix between five and five 70 and death is seven to seven 70. And he said, that's why he played for offensive lineman. I had another one come here, this, this, this many years ago. That's why I would never work in, you know, I like absolute blood, like slow cars and like fast cars, right?
[01:09:53] Yeah, exactly. I had a guy come here fifth year in the NFL, Lyman out from the Raiders. [01:10:00] He comes here. And, uh, I worked at moved a weekend. He'd got his own trainer. My pit bull is hanging out with his jaw while I was here. But on that, on that week, and he was here three days on a third day on 74, we took him to the airport.
[01:10:12] He got the longest standing, standing long jump of his career. How did he do that? Three days here when he was in the end of over five freaking years, somebody's not doing their job, you know, that's all. And he wrote a thesis about band trading because of it. Oh, really?
[01:10:28] John Quint: [01:10:28] Yes. That'd be interesting.
[01:10:30] Louie Simmons: [01:10:30] Yeah. But every year,
[01:10:33] John Quint: [01:10:33] there's sorry to interrupt, but see, that's what I'm saying.
[01:10:36] Right? Like that half fleet new, like these guys, they get a hold of something and it works
[01:10:41] Louie Simmons: [01:10:41] and do it. That's it is.
[01:10:43] John Quint: [01:10:43] That's why I'm saying, like, I just don't buy the IX. I don't buy it. Like you look at these guys and these guys are they're they're type a personalities. They want to be the best. And they're looking for every advantage.
[01:10:55] They just, uh, I don't want to say they've been disappointed. They just haven't found. [01:11:00] The system that they need yet. Right. And so instead of doing anything, they go, well, I'm just not going to do anything. And I hope that I don't get any worse and we all know that that isn't the case.
[01:11:10] Tom Barry: [01:11:10] And then we get them and they said, I wish I found this sooner.
[01:11:13] Louie Simmons: [01:11:13] I wish everybody a lot of magic retard. Yeah. I just go to jail. Yeah, my, my, I feel like my job, like her enough that they don't have to buy. That's why I write books. I got a lot of knowledge. I've worked for a lot of people. So I mean, it's right there. Like a, you know, I talk about throws. He got so different drugs.
[01:11:31] You just can't throw one direction. And Ashley at Ohio state was saying, I'm going to be different. That helped her getting people to book directions. You just can't do something one way all the time.
[01:11:40] John Quint: [01:11:40] What do you mean
[01:11:42] Louie Simmons: [01:11:42] if he throws a shot this way? I'll make a throw that way too. So the body evens out and to get more coordinated, you know, a real coordinated one motion, but not yet anything else, but I mean, that's typical overseas, so.
[01:11:57] All right. All right,
[01:11:58] Tom Barry: [01:11:58] Louie, John, [01:12:00] thank you very much.
[01:12:01] Louie Simmons: [01:12:01] Thank you Tom.